18: Justin Akers Chacón on the violence of borders

With Jen out of town, Episode 3 guest Lupita Romero steps in to join Danny in a conversation with Justin Akers Chacón, a San Diego-based professor of U.S. History and Chicano Studies, and author of two new books: Radicals in the Barrio, about the history of Mexican and Mexican American working class revolutionaries; and an updated version of No One is Illegal, Justin’s important 2006 book with Mike Davis about fighting oppression in the American Southwest. 

On top of all that, Justin is a longtime organizer of cross-border solidarity efforts for workers in both Mexico and the U.S., so we ended up having not one but two conversations. We’ll release our discussion of Radicals in the Barrio in the coming weeks. This week, you’ll hear our conversation about the U.S.-Mexico border, which Justin describes to us as both “political theater” and an increasingly deadly reality. 

We also talk about immigration politics, and how the enforcement-heavy debates in Washington have generally taken place several steps to the right of where public sentiment actually stands—except in those moments like the enormous marches in 2006, when immigrants and their supporters forced themselves onto the public stage. 

Justin argues that today we might be seeing the rise of another such moment with the rapid spread of calls to abolish ICE and move past the dead-end negotiations for bipartisan “immigration reform.”

In our opening segment, our producer Eric joins Lupita and Danny for a conversation about socialism: the concept and the conference. Since the primary victory of democratic socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (which Jen and Eric discussed in Episode 17), a surge of people have gone online to look up definitions of socialism. We discuss what’s wrong with the definition they find in the dictionary, and how the recent Socialism 2018 conference showed signs of a U.S. left that’s taking steps toward becoming a force than help a new generation give socialism a better name.  

Links for this episode: 

•    Justin’s new book: Radicals in the Barrio: Magonistas, Socialists, Wobblies, and Communists in the Mexican-American Working Class (http://bit.ly/RadicalsBarrio) 
•    Justin’s updated version of No One is Illegal: Fighting Racism and State Violence on the U.S.-Mexico Border (http://bit.ly/NoOneIllegal)
•    Justin’s article written at the beginning of the Trump campaign, “Capitalism and the new brown scare” (http://bit.ly/NewBrownScare)
•    “Life and death on the border” (http://bit.ly/LifeDeathBorder), a series of Socialist Worker articles written in 2011 by Justin, our producer Eric Ruder and Nohelia Ramos as they travelled the border from California to Texas. 
•    “The new abolitionism” (http://bit.ly/AbolichICEDemand), Danny’s article on the importance of demand to abolish ICE. 

From our opening segment, here are a few audio and video links to sessions from the Socialism 2018 conference: 

•    Video from the evening plenary, “Workers Strike Back: Lessons of the Teachers’ Rebellion” (http://bit.ly/TeachersStrikePlenary)

•    Audio from “Future of the Socialist Left”, a discussion between Jen and Ella Mahony of DSA, moderated by Jason Farbman (http://bit.ly/FutureSocialistLeft)

•    Audio from Eva Maria’s talk: “Did Socialism Fail in Venezuela?” (http://bit.ly/SocialismVenezuela)

Music and Audio for this episode

The Boy & Sister Alma, “Lizard Eyes” (Dead Sea Captains Remix)
Las Cafeteras, "Trabajador Trabajadora" 
La Santa Cecilia, “El Hielo (ICE)” 
Woody Guthrie, “This Land Is Your Land” 
Los Jornaleros Del Norte, "Serenata A Un Indocumentado" 
Los Tigres Del Norte, "Tres Veces Mojado" 

17: Ocasio-Cortez victory; Alex Vitale on the end of policing

In our intro, we talk about DSA member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’ stunning defeat of Democratic incumbent and party boss Joseph Crowley in the June 26 NY primaries. We discuss how Cortez’ victory shows the desire for an alternative to the establishment Democrats as well as a tide of enthusiasm for socialism. We also talk about the challenges she’ll face as a socialist trying to navigate the shark-infested waters of the Democratic Party. We touch on some of the debates amongst socialists about how to approach the Democratic Party and how and whether we need to create our own party. Our intro ran longer than usual this week, but we hope that this will be the start to an ongoing discussion around the elections in the coming months.

In our interview, we talk to Alex Vitale about his book, The End of Policing (Verso Books) (http://bit.ly/VitaleBook). Vitale is a professor of sociology and coordinator of the policing and social justice project at Brooklyn College. His writings have appeared in the New York Times, NY Daily News, USA Today, the Nation and Vice News. For more information about his writings as well as his public appearances and other news, check out his website (http://bit.ly/VitaleWeb).

The rise of the Black Lives Matter movement has produced widespread recognition of police abuse and prompted demands for reform. At the same time, groups like the Black Youth Project  http://bit.ly/BYPBOR) and the Movement for Black Lives (http://bit.ly/MBLBOR) have questioned the relationship between intensive policing, structural racism and deeper patterns of inequality. Vitale argues that we should question the very nature and purpose of the police as an instrument for social control. He suggests that the answer is not better policing, but an end to policing itself.

In our discussion, we talk about why the various reforms being proposed do not address the problems with policing. Vitale recounts the origins of the modern police as part of England’s colonial subjugation of Northern Ireland and the need to monitor the free movement of urban slaves in Charleston, South Carolina. We also talk about why policing has become even more intensive and violent in the last few decades as part of a bipartisan political project and in response to heightened levels of inequality. Vitale argues that if we want to address the real issues that policing purports to address, then we need large-scale structural reforms to address inequality and racism.

In the last part of our discussion, we get into the strategic questions about how to build a movement against the criminal injustice system, how calls for prison abolition fit into that, and the work and demands that some of the organizations leading around this issue are raising.

For additional reading related to our interview, check out:

*Alex Vitale in the NYT talking about the new super-predator myth (http://bit.ly/VitaleNYT)

*Alex Vitale in Jacobin on why body cameras and more training aren’t enough (http://bit.ly/VitaleJacobin)

*Episode 6 of this podcast, in which we talk about the intersection of mental health and policing

*The Movement for Black Lives Platform (http://bit.ly/MBLPlatform)


For additional related to our intro on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, check out:

*Socialist Worker article on How far can the left go in the Democratic Party? (http://bit.ly/AOCSW)

*Jacobin article on why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won (http://bit.ly/JacobinAOC)

*Lance Selfa’s The Democrats: A Critical History (Haymarket Books) (http://bit.ly/Selfa)


Music in this episode:

The Boy & Sister Alma, “Lizard Eyes” (Dead Sea Captains Remix)

Cardi B, “I Like It Like That”

Solange, “Mad” ft. Lil Wayne

KRS-One, “Sound Of Da Police”

Vic Mensa, “16 Shots”

Bruce Springsteen, “American Skin (41 Shots)”

N.W.A., “Fuck Tha Police”


16: Sherry Wolf on LGBT politics from ACT UP to Trump

We celebrate Pride month by sitting down with Sherry Wolf, organizer of the 2009 National Equality March and author of Sexuality and Socialism: Politics and Theory of LGBT Liberation, to discuss the long strange journey for queer liberation. In the opener, we talk about the sudden emergence of national protests against the horrors of migrant family separation. 
Sherry started our conversation talking about the contradictions of queer life in 2018, with a barrage of anti-gay laws initiatives raining down on the state and federal level on one and, and on the other hand an unprecedented openness to sexual and gender fluidity, especially among people under 30. We discussed the continuing violence and oppression facing the queer population, particularly trans women and working class people of color, which threatens to get worse under the most right wing government in generations. But Sherry also argued why the genie of LGBT freedom can’t be put back in the bottle, and talked about her participation in the struggles to win those gains, from ACT Up to the National Equality March. 
In the opening segment, we eat some crow—quite happily--about our conversation last week bemoaning the lack of effective resistance to the White House terror policies against migrant families seeking asylum at the southern border. In just a few short days, protests have broken out from the border to ICE offices to any restaurant where a Trump administration official dares to dine. This is a decisive moment and we urge all our listeners to join in building the national day of action against family separation on June 30 (http://bit.ly/June30protests).

Links for this episode

On LGBT liberation and marriage equality: 
·     “We demand full equality” (http://bit.ly/NEMreport)
·     “A civil rights victory long in the making” (http://bit.ly/HistoryMarriageEquality) 
·     “The fight continues for the Black Pride 4” (http://bit.ly/BlackPrideFour)
·     “The Supreme Court says: Let them eat hate” (http://bit.ly/MasterpieceHate)
On the struggle against family separation: 
·     “Let them know: ¡Niños, no están solos!” (http://bit.ly/borderprotests)
·     “Who can stop the kidnapper-in-chief?” (http://bit.ly/Kidnapper-in-chief)
·     June 30 National protests against family separation (http://bit.ly/June30protests)

Music in this episode

The Boy & Sister Alma, “Lizard Eyes” (Dead Sea Captains Remix)
Lance Canales, “Plane Wreck At Los Gatos” (Deportee) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zElJBsU5GKI)
M.I.A., “Paper Planes”
Lady Gaga, “Bad Romance”
ANOHNI, “Why Did You Separate Me From The Earth?”
4 Non Blondes, “What’s Up?”

15: The Trump nightmare; Fighting the right with Mukund Rathi


After Trump’s election, Berkeley became the epicenter of far-right organizing and resistance to it. Mukund talks to us about that experience, the strategic debates and lessons learned. In our intro, we talk about why we can’t succumb to helplessness in the face of the Trump nightmare - and some ideas about how we build an alternative.

Mukund Rathi is a law student at UC Berkeley and an active socialist in the Bay Area. He has written for Socialist Worker, In These Times and the Daily Californian. In February 2017, Milo Yiannopoulos attempted to speak at Berkeley and was shut down by thousands of protesters. Mukund points out that nearly all the media coverage, including on the left, focused on a small core of antifa activists and ignored the 2,000 students who showed up to protest.

Mukund talks to us about the development of the fight against the right in Berkeley and nationally. He discusses the different strategic debates and argues both against a position of shutting the right down by any means necessary and against the argument to simply ignore the right. Instead, he argues, it has been mass mobilizations and coordinated organization and solidarity that have pushed back the right - in Charlottesville, Boston and in a later round of struggle in Berkeley. We talk about how the protests in Charlottesville, and the murder of Heather Heyer, were a turning point in galvanizing mass opposition.


However, Mukund also points out that the far-right is still organizing. They have continued to harass and threaten student and community activists in the Bay Area. This has had a chilling effect on protest. The liberal establishment in the Bay Area has refused to take this threat seriously and failed to protect activists while bending over to protect the “free speech” of the far-right. It will be up to activists to build solidarity and learn the lessons from last year’s battles.


Resources and links for this episode:

Mukund wrote an article for Socialist Worker on the protests that shut down Milo (http://bit.ly/MiloSW). And in this article he reflected on the lessons of the fight against the right (http://bit.ly/MukundLessonsSW).

Here, the Bay Area International Socialist Organization describes the attempt by the far-right to disrupt its meeting (http://bit.ly/BayISOStatement).

Eric Ruder and Francois Huges describes the “free speech week” fiasco, in which Berkeley spent a million dollars to defend Milo’s fantasy carnival of far-right speakers (which never materialized) while doing nothing to defend the rights of students. (http://bit.ly/FreeSpeechFiasco).

Mukund participated in a roundtable debate hosted by In These Times in which he defended the shutting down of Milo while arguing for a strategy of mass confrontation.


In this article for the International Socialist Review, Monique Dols discusses the debates around free speech and fighting the right on campus (http://bit.ly/ISRFightRight).


Music in This Episode:

A Tribe Called Quest - We the People

Patti Smith - People Have The Power

Death - Where Do We Go From Here?

The Clash - Know Your Rights

Elvis Costello - Night Rally

Sunflower Bean - Crisis Fest

Milva - Bella Ciao


14: Naomi Klein on the battle for Puerto Rico and life under Trump

The author of The Shock Doctrine, No is Not Enough, and This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate sits down with us to discuss her new book The Battle for Paradise: Puerto Rico Takes on the Disaster Capitalists (http://bit.ly/BattleParaidise). 

Naomi talks about Wall Street investors’ view of post-hurricane Puerto Rico as a potential “blank canvas” to host their various schemes, and puts this in the context of a long colonial history of U.S. attempts to depopulate the island—including through mass sterilization—in order to overcome the impressive resistance of Puerto Ricans. 

She also spoke with us about the daily shocks of life under Trump, and the urgent need for political education for people to understand where these attacks are coming from and overcome the prevailing sense of disorientation. 

In our opener, Jen and Danny talked about the debunking of the famous “Marshmallow Study” that many claimed could predict your future based on whether you can wait 15 minutes for a treat as a 4-year-old (http://bit.ly/MarshmallowStudy). And we gushed for a bit about the terrific new website for Socialist Worker (http://bit.ly/NewSocialistWorker). 


Get a copy of The Battle for Paradise in English (http://bit.ly/BattleParaidise) or Spanish (http://bit.ly/SpanishPR).

All royalties go directly to JunteGente (http://bit.ly/JunteGente), a gathering of Puerto Rican organizations resisting disaster capitalism and advancing a fair and healthy recovery for their island. 

Learn more about the campaign to audit Puerto Rico’s debt (http://bit.ly/auditPRdebt). 

Check out the video of Naomi’s recent event in New York City with a number of Puerto Rican activists (http://bit.ly/CooperUnionevent).

Also check out No is Not Enough: Resisting Trump's Shock Politics and Winning the World We Need (http://bit.ly/NKNoNotEnough). 

Follow Naomi Klein at her website (http://bit.ly/NaomiKleinsite) and at The Intercept (http://bit.ly/NKIntercept). 
And check out the video of Naomi speaking with a number of other activists at last year’s Anti-Inauguration (http://bit.ly/AntiInauguration). 

Finally check out some of Socialist Worker’s coverage of Puerto Rico’s: 
•    resistance to colonialism (http://bit.ly/PRcolony)
•    debt crisis (http://bit.ly/DebtBeforeStorm)
•    teachers union (http://bit.ly/MercedezMartinez)
•    May Day protest (http://bit.ly/PRMayDay)

Music in this episode

The Boy & Sister Alma, “Lizard Eyes” (Dead Sea Captains Remix)
Ella Fitzgerald and Bing Crosby, “Marshmallow World”
Calle 13, “Baile De Los Pobres”
Hector Lavoe, “Juanito Alimaña”
Andrés Jiménez, “Despierta Boricua”
Tito Puente, “Five Beat Mambo”

13: Trump’s Border Terror; Abortion Without Apology with Megan Dey Lessard and Michelle Farber

We talk to abortion rights activists Megan Dey Lessard of NYC for Abortion Rights and Michelle Farber of Seattle Clinic Defense about the fight to defend the clinics - and for abortion without apology. In our intro, we discuss the latest stage in the war on immigrants - Trump’s new “zero tolerance” policy that is separating children from their parents at the border.

Our co-producer, Maria Silvestri, joined Jen for our interview with Megan and Michelle. Michelle and Megan countered many of the arguments made by the mainstream pro-choice groups against clinic defense and explained why this kind of activism is needed right now. They argued that the strategy of relying on an electoral strategy or lobbying efforts has failed us as restrictions on abortion proliferate and we lose ground to the right. They also make an important case for building solidarity and struggle as the way to push back against the right and to begin to re-win an unapologetic argument for abortion as a fundamental right. We talk about the lessons of the Irish referendum to repeal the ban on abortion and why that should be a model for us here.

Here are links to some of the articles we cite and for further reading:

  • Jen wrote an article for Socialist Worker about the lessons of organizing the first counter-protest that was NYC for Abortion Rights’ first action (bit.ly/JenCounterProtests). At that protest, Jen debated an anti-choice activist in a NY Times FB live video (bit.ly/JenTimes). Julia Mead wrote a piece for The Nation (bit.ly/NationClinicDefense) about why activists decided to counter-protest despite Planned Parenthood’s call to stay home. And Elizabeth Schulte covered the counter-protests across the country in Socialist Worker (bit.ly/SWConfrontBigots)

  • Becca Bor, an Irish pro-choice campaigner, wrote a piece about the lessons of the repeal movement in Ireland and and how they won (bit.ly/SWRepeal)

  • In our episode, Michelle describes the impact of clinic defense on providers and patients inside the clinic. She wrote a very moving account of this in an article for SW (bit.ly/MichelleClinics)

  • We also talk about Nancy Pelosi saying that the issue of abortion shouldn’t be a litmus test for Democrats. Lichi D’Amelio wrote a piece for Jacobin (bit.ly/LichiJacobin) about why the mainstream abortion rights movement is losing the war on abortion by tailing these Democrats and why we need to make abortion a central issue for the left.

In our opener, Jen is joined by guest hosts Lea Ramirez and Lider Restrepo for a discussion of the crisis at the border. We talk about the impact of Trump’s new “zero tolerance” policy, which criminalizes all migrants crossing the border - even those with credible asylum claims. This has led to mass trials of immigrants and the separation of children from their parents. Trump’s rhetoric and policies have given a green light to racist border control and ICE agents and have created a reign of terror in immigrant communities. But they are also a continuation of policies enacted under the Obama administration. We talk about why the abuse being exposed is built into the logic of border militarization and the push to deter refugees from fleeing the economic and political violence wrought by US policy.

Here are some links for further reading:


The Boy & Sister Alma, “Lizard Eyes” (Dead Sea Captains Remix)

Outernational, “We Are All Illegals” (feat. Tom Morello, Calle 13, Chad Smith)

The Hamilton Mixtape, “Immigrants (We Get the Job Done)” (feat. K'naan, Riz Ahmed, Snow Tha Product, Residente)

Ani DiFranco, “Hello Birmingham”

The Cranberries, “Free To Decide”


12: Save Kevin Cooper; Revolution and Counter-Revolution in Syria with Anand Gopal and Yasser Munif

We talk to Anand Gopal and Yasser Munif about the revolution and counter-revolution in Syria. Anand has travelled to Syria multiple times as an unembedded journalist starting in 2011 and returning from his most recent visit in May. This gives him an almost unparalleled ability to untangle the lies and hypocrisy of both Assad’s regime and the U.S. Yasser is a Syrian-American activist who was in Syria at the beginning of the revolution and is studying the Arab revolutions. He is writing a book about how the Syrian resistance is building an underground society to survive the brutality of the regime.

Yasser and Anand answer all our questions, and probably yours, about Syria. They describe the Syrian uprising of 2011 and its links to the Arab Spring. Many left-wing and pro-Palestine activists, including journalists who have embedded with Syrian regime forces and traveled on regime-sponsored tours, ignore this history and argue that the resistance forces are simply tools of U.S. imperialism and regime change.

Yasser and Anand refute these charges and offer a dynamic analysis of U.S. imperial goals in Syria. Anand outlines the three stages of U.S. intervention--the first being the U.S. military and diplomatic efforts to prevent the Syrian revolutionaries from obtaining weapons to defend themselves against a murderous regime. They argue that the US is not interested in “regime change,” but would like to see Assadism without Assad.

They describe two currents of counter-revolution--the regime and reactionary Islamist forces. Both are backed by competing imperialist and sub-imperialist powers. They argue that anti-imperialists need to stand in solidarity with the popular forces that are opposed to both of these forces.

Most importantly, Yasser and Anand point to sources of hope. They argue that the democratic forces in Syria are small and embattled, but still exist. Many of the 5.5 million Syrian refugees are revolutionaries and are a radicalizing and destabilizing presence throughout the Middle East. They link the Syrian revolution to the wider developments in the Middle East, including the current uprising in Palestine, and the process of rebuilding a new left throughout the region.

In our opener, we talk about the case of Kevin Cooper, an innocent man facing execution on California’s death row. Nicholas Kristof has written a major piece for the NY Times (bit.ly/SaveCooper) detailing the mountain of evidence that Cooper is innocent and was framed by police who planted evidence. Cooper came within hours of being executed in 2004. A massive campaign by the Free Kevin Cooper Campaign (bit.ly/CooperCampaign), the Campaign to End the Death Penalty (bit.ly/NoDeathPenalty) and other activists. Once again, he is facing execution and activists are calling on Democratic Governor Jerry Brown to grant clemency so that new evidence in Cooper’s case can be investigated. Listeners are encouraged to sign the petition (bit.ly/CooperPetition).

Writings and Interviews of Anand Gopal:

Interview in Socialist Worker (http://bit.ly/AnandRuderSW) about his major investigative piece for the NY Times, The Uncounted (bit.ly/Uncounted), about the underreported civilian casualties of US airstrikes in Iraq and Syria.

Democracy Now! (bit.ly/AnandDN) interview

Interview with International Socialist Review about the roots of ISIS (bit.ly/AnandISR).

Interview with Ashley Smith for Socialist Worker on whether the US wants regime change (bit.ly/AnandSW).

Writings and Interviews of Yasser Munif:

Review of Burning Country, about the Syrian revolution and civil war, for the International Socialist Review (bit.ly/YasserISR).

Interview with Yusef Khalil for Jacobin about the question of Syria and the Left (bit.ly/YasserJacobin).

Democracy Now! Interviews during siege of Aleppo (bit.ly/YasserDNFall) and about the Syrian activists working to continue the Arab Spring (bit.ly/YasserDNSpring).


11: Trump to Iran: “This is America,” with Frieda Afary and Ashley Smith

Donald Trump has ended the Iran nuclear deal, making the entire world an even more dangerous place. Our guests explain both the method and the madness behind the decision, which has already emboldened U.S. allies like Israel and Saudi Arabia to step up their repression in Palestine and Yemen.

We also discuss the view from Iran, where there have been major protests in recent months for both workers’ and women’s rights. This interview is a continuation of our ongoing discussions about the importance of building democratic anti-imperialist politics that stand not only in opposition to the U.S. repression, but also in solidarity with people fighting for their rights, whether or not their government is allied with Washington.

Frieda Afary is an Iranian-American librarian, writer, translator, activist and producer of Iranian Progressives in Translation. She’s also a founding member of the Alliance of Middle Eastern Socialists, which is an international collective of Syrian, Iranian, Kurdish, Palestinian, Turkish, Lebanese, Iraqi and Egyptian members. It is opposed to capitalism, militarism, authoritarianism, imperialism, religious fundamentalism, patriarchy/sexism/heterosexism, racism, ethnic and religious prejudice. It stands for socialism as a concept of human emancipation and an affirmative vision distinguished from the authoritarian regimes that called themselves “Communist.” Its main goals are:

1. Developing connections and active forms of solidarity between labor, feminist, anti-racist, LGBT, student and environmental struggles in the Middle East region and internationally; 2. Tackling the deep and historical problems of Middle Eastern socialism; 3. Developing an affirmative vision of a humanist alternative to capitalism.

Learn more here (http://bit.ly/AlliancePrinciples) about the Alliance of Middle Eastern Socialists and its current campaign in solidarity with Middle Eastern political prisoners and activities in solidarity with Syrian Kurdish and Arab revolutionaries, Palestinians as well as Iranian labor and feminist activists in the current popular uprising in Iran.

You can read Frieda’s writing on the protests in Iran (http://bit.ly/IranStrikes) and the need for solidarity with all of those suffering military attacks in Syria (http://bit.ly/SolidarityAfrin).

Ashley Smith is on the editorial board of the International Socialist Review. His new article “Illiberal Hegemony: Trump’s Imperial Strategy” isn’t yet online, which is all the more reason to subscribe to the magazine here (http://bit.ly/ISRsubscribe).

Ashley is also a frequent contributor to Socialist Worker on issues of U.S. wars and imperial rivalries. Check out his recent articles “The return of the regime change haws” (http://bit.ly/RegimeChangeReturn) and “Why the left has to stand with Iran’s uprising” (http://bit.ly/StandWithIan).

Finally, the best English language reporting on the recent strikes in Iran might be in the Wall Street Journal (http://bit.ly/WSJonIran), which would never provide such sympathetic coverage in a country backed by the U.S.  

For our opener, we invited socialists and Movement for Black Lives activists Akua Ofori and Khury Peterson-Smith to discuss the wild and disturbing video for Childish Gambino’s “This is America.”

Akua’s powerful Socialist Worker obituary for Erica Garner (http://bit.ly/EricaGarnerObit) touched on some of the themes she discusses about the casualties taken in recent fights against racism. Meanwhile, Khury’s review of Beyoncé’s “Lemonade” (http://bit.ly/KPSonLemonade) shows where his artistic sympathies lie.

Music in this episode

The Boy & Sister Alma, “Lizard Eyes” (Dead Sea Captains Remix)

Childish Gambino, “This Is America”

Fela Kuti, “Zombie”

Kendrick Lamar, “Alright”

Mohammad Reza Shajarian, “Az Eshgh (Love Song),” NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert

Niyaz, “Sabza Ba Naz (The Triumph of Love)”

Sima Bina, اواز کردی کرمانجی و سیزه گل یار

Pallett, “Vagabond”